A One-On-One With Dan Reed, Ops Director/MD, WXPN Philadelphia and Founder/Producer of the annual NON-COMMvention
Dan Reed is the Operations and Music Director for the University of Pennsylvania's WXPN in Philadelphia. WXPN will host the Eighth Annual NON-COMMvention in Philadelphia May 29-31, 2008. Dan was the founder of the NON-COMMvention when he was Program Director of WFPK in Louisville back in 2001. As the convention fast approaches at the end of this month, it was time to for a few questions.

By Mike Lyons

LYONS: Congratulations on getting to the eighth Non-Comm! Tell us the reason you came up with a convention for the AAA Non-Commercial stations in the first place.

REED: THANKS, MIKE! WE STARTED THIS THING JUST TO EXPAND UPON THE ISSUES AND MUSIC THAT NON-COMMERCIAL AAA STATIONS WERE TRYING TO DEAL WITH, AND THAT'S OFTEN VERY DIFFERENT FROM COMMERCIAL STATIONS' ISSUES. WE ALSO WANTED TO SHOWCASE OUR NEW BUILDING IN LOUISVILLE AND GET SOME PUBLICITY ABOUT WFPK AND THE (THEN CALLED) PUBLIC RADIO PARTNERSHIP.
 
LYONS: This past year, as commercial music stations continued to stay the course with tight music lists, it occurred to me that the NON-COMM is now one of only four, big programming conventions left in our industry. There's the main R&R bash, the Conclave, the R&R AAA Summit and your NON-COMMvention. Did you ever imagine it would become this successful?

REED: I NEVER IMAGINED THAT IT WOULD LAST EIGHT YEARS, THAT'S FOR SURE! I GUESS THAT THERE WERE ENOUGH PROGRAMMERS AND RECORD PEOPLE WHO WERE INTERESTED IN THE FORMAT TO KEEP IT GOING. I'M CERTAINLY FLATTERED THAT PEOPLE SEEM TO ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE, AND THAT MANY INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS LOOK UPON A SHOWCASE AT THE NON-COMM AS AN IMPORTANT PART OF ARTIST DEVELOPMENT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT STAYS FUN FOR EVERYBODY ATTENDING.
 
LYONS: How have the labels reacted as this convention has grown?

REED: WELL...THEY'VE REACTED POSITIVELY AS IT'S GROWN, BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE ON HAND TO WATCH THEIR BANDS! ASIDE FROM THAT, THE INDUSTRY IS OBVIOUSLY CHANGING, THERE'S NOT NEARLY AS MUCH TOUR SUPPORT, ETC., AVAILABLE. THAT BEING SAID, I'M VERY PROUD OF THIS YEAR'S MUSICAL LINEUP.
 
LYONS: What is the biggest benefit for AAA Non-Comm stations as a result of this convention?

REED: I'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT IT MAKES EVERYBODY AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY ELSE. IT'S A PRETTY FRIENDLY, KICK-BACK AFFAIR, AND THE STATIONS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO NETWORK WITH EVERYBODY THERE. I ALSO THINK THAT SO MUCH OF THE LEARNING AND SHARING BETWEEN PROGRAMMERS HAPPENS AT GIGS OR AT LUNCH, WHEN PEOPLE ARE JUST HANGING OUT AND TALKING RADIO. THAT - COMBINED WITH THE MEETINGS AND MUSIC SESSIONS AND THE OVERALL INCLUSIVE VIBE - MAKE THE NON-COMM A CONVENTION LIKE NO OTHER, IN MY OPINION.
 
LYONS: Personally, I've been impressed with the growth of management attendance. Tell us about the panels set for this NON-COMM.

REED: YEAH, HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET SOME MORE MANAGERS AT THIS YEAR'S SHINDIG...WE'VE GOT THE FAMOUS "MUSIC MEETING" ONCE AGAIN, AND - FOR THE FIRST TIME - ON THURSDAY WE'VE GOT A WHOLE DAY OF RADIO-INTENSIVE MEETINGS THAT WE'VE DUBBED THE "AAA BOOT CAMP" WHERE WE'LL HAVE A COUPLE OF BREAKOUT SESSIONS ABOUT MARKETING, FUN RAISING, ETC. THAT SHOULD BE AN EXCELLENT, INFORMATIVE DAY. OUR FRIDAY MORNING MEETING IS BEING HOSTED BY KURT HANSON, WHO'S THE FOUNDER AND EDITOR OF THE RADIO AND INTERNET NEWSLETTER.  HE'S A VERY ENGAGING SPEAKER WHO'S BEEN WORKING HARD ON HIS TOPIC - "THE FUTURE OF RADIO".
 
LYONS: What are the advantages of doing the NON-COMM in Philadelphia from Louisville?

REED: IT'S CLOSER TO NYC, SO WE SEEM TO ATTRACT A FEW MORE INDUSTRY TYPES. IT'S HOME TO ME NOW, SO THAT'S MY OWN PERSONAL SELFISH ADVANTAGE! PHILLY'S A GREAT TOWN, AND WE'RE ALWAYS EXCITED TO SHOWCASE OUR FAIRLY NEW RADIO FACILITY. WE SHARE THE BUILDING WITH WORLD CAFÉ LIVE - TRULY A WORLD-CLASS MUSIC VENUE, SO THAT ALWAYS HELPS THINGS. CHEESESTEAKS ARE BETTER HERE. LOUISVILLE HAS MUCH BETTER FRIED CHICKEN STANDS, HOWEVER...
 
LYONS: Triplearadio.com is fortunate to have a buzzed-about-act like Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings for the opening night along with Jim White at the World Cafe Live. Who are our other convention highlights?

REED: THE HOLD STEADY. DR. JOHN. JAKOB DYLAN. HAYES CARLL & RYAN BINGHAM. ALEJANDRO AND KATHLEEN EDWARDS ARE ALWAYS EXCELLENT. BACK DOOR SLAM. SO MANY MORE...
 
LYONS: Got a sleeper we shouldn't miss?

REED: YES - CARNEY - FRIDAY LATE NIGHT RIGHT BEFORE BACK DOOR SLAM. SEE THEM BEFORE ALL OF YOUR OTHER LAME FRIENDS CAN LAY CLAIM ON "DISCOVERING"
THEM FIRST...
 
LYONS: Thanks so much, Dan. Look forward to seeing you.

REED: LIKEWISE, MIKE - THANKS TO YOU AND DAVE AND TRIPLEARADIO.COM FOR ALL OF THE HELP!

Eighth Annual NON-COMMvention, May 29-31, 2008: Schedule

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A One-On-One With Jimmy Steal, VP of Programming, Emmis Broadcasting/101.9 RXP New York
Jimmy Steal is the VP of Programming for Emmis Broadcasting and also the longtime PD of KPWR in Los Angeles, annually one of the top two or three billing radio stations in the country as well as ranked #1 for a record breaking 15 #1 18-34 books in a row. Jimmy and I worked together back in the day at his very first weekend radio job while in college at rocker WDIZ and later at #1 rated CHR XL106.7 Orlando. We always shared an addiction to finding cool new music through the ensuing years. Now Emmis owns AAA icon KGSR in Austin and just flipped WQCD in New York City to 101.9 RXP, "The New York Rock Experience" featuring an "innovative new adult rock format". He agreed to answer a few questions for me.

By Mike Lyons

LYONS: I remember you playing Dan Ingram airchecks from WABC for me many years ago. Must be a great rush to help get this new station on the air in New York city!

STEAL: ABSOLUTELY, BEING ON A TEAM THAT INCLUDES EMMIS NY MARKET VP DAN HALYBURTON, PD BLAKE LAWRENCE, EMMIS NY MARKETING GURU BRIAN D'AURELIO, MD BRYAN SCHOCK, SBR CREATIVE, AND PARAGON RESEARCH - ALL WORKING TOGETHER TO PUT ON A INNOVATIVE NEW ROCK STATION IN THE BIGGEST MARKET IN THE WORLD, WHERE I GREW UP, IS WELL.......PRETTY DAMN THRILLING!

LYONS: Loved hearing "Rock and Roll" from the Velvet Underground as the first song. What's the playlist going to be?

STEAL: ME TOO AND IT HAD TO BE THE LIVE VERSION RECORDED IN NYC! THE MUSIC LIBRARY( I HATE THE WORD PLAYLIST ) WILL BE DEEP AND REFLECT SOME OF THE BEST ROCK SONGS NEW AND OLD, FEATURING ARTISTS FROM TRIPLE A, ROCK, ALTERNATIVE, INDIE & OVERALL NEW ROCK, AND OF COURSE SOME CLASSICS; TO - NITE - IN - JUN - GLE - LAND! : )...ALL ASSEMBLED FOR ANYONE WHO WAS RAISED ON THE GREAT NY ROCK RADIO LEGACY OF THE PAST THAT UNFORTUNATELY HAS BEEN SORELY MISSING FOR MANY YEARS...MIKE REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST TOLD YOU ABOUT OUR KMVNHD2 HYBRID STATION OUT HERE IN LA A YEAR AND A HALF AGO? WELL THAT IS THE FATHER OF WRXP : ) RXP IS A STATION FOR PEOPLE WHO LOVE ROCK MUSIC...FOR PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY BELIEVE "I LEARNED MORE FROM A 3 MINUTE RECORD THAN I EVER LEARNED IN SCHOOL" ( SPRINGSTEEN )

LYONS: What's your take on existing NYC AAA WFUV with their new signal and KEXP Seattle's new agreement to share programming with non-commercial WNYE-FM?

STEAL: I THINK IT'S GREAT, THE MORE INTELLIGENT CHOICES THAT EXPOSE NEW MUSIC, AND PRESENT ROCK AS A CULTURE, AND NOT JUST A FORMAT, AS WRXP DOES, THE BETTER OFF THE INDUSTRY AND THE LISTENERS ARE....EMMIS LIKES TRIPLE A, JODY DENBERG PERFECTLY EXEMPLIFIES AN ICONIC MUSIC LOVER THAT ONE CAN BUILD A VERY SUCCESSFUL MUSIC BRAND AROUND.

LYONS: Will the station report as a AAA?

STEAL: HAVE NO IDEA, YOU'D HAVE TO ASK BRYAN LOL! BUT FEEL FREE TO ADD ME TO ANY MUSIC MAILING LISTS : ) RXP WILL PLAY A LOT OF GREAT NEW/LOCAL ACTS/SONGS FROM; THE NATIONAL, NADA SURF, SAINTS + LOVERS, BROKEN WEST, IKE REILLY ASSASSINATION, THE SWIMMERS, STEREOPHONICS AND A LOT MORE....

LYONS : The label's are loving this. Who will be the station connection for them. Bryan?

STEAL: YES, THE LUXURY OF HAVING BRYAN ABOARD, AND HIS WELL EARNED PASSIONATE MUSIC REPUTATION, HAS BEEN GREAT FOR RXP/EMMIS...THE RESPONSE TO RXP HAS BEEN PRETTY AMAZING IN BOTH VOLUME AND SENTIMENT, RANGING FROM HEART FELT "THANK YOU'S" FROM SOME WHO HAD GIVEN UP ON RADIO TO "WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG!" FROM THOSE WHO HAD BEEN "PATIENTLY" WAITING : )

LYONS: How about the staff? Your program director Blake Lawrence is quoted as saying "on-air personalities will play a direct part in choosing the music". It would make so much sense to allow folks to drop in topical artists and songs depending on what's happening in the city that day.

STEAL: AGREED! ALREADY STARTED HAPPENING ON VALENTINES DAY BRYAN THREW IN THE WALMER HIGH SCHOOL CHOIR PORT ELIZABETH SOUTH AFRICA VERSION OF PEARL JAM'S BETTER MAN...WHICH IF YOU HAVEN'T HEARD IT, IS SOO STIRRING..ALL JOCKS WILL HAVE A HAND IN SELECTING OUR MUSIC AND ENCOURAGED TO ATTEND ALL MUSIC MEETINGS....ON THE TALENT TIP, HOPEFULLY THIS COMING WEEK LOOK FOR BLAKE TO ANNOUNCE THE 2ND MEMBER OF THE RXP AIR STAFF, WHICH WE ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT...

LYONS: The radio industry is struggling. Listeners have to believe that a station is worth dedicating their time to. If RXP works in the country's largest market, like the song, it could make it anywhere, right?

STEAL: OF COURSE EVERY MARKET MATRIX IS DIFFERENT, BUT I DO THINK THAT INTELLIGENT, YET FUN ROCK STATIONS, STATIONS THAT REALLY HAVE MUSIC GEEKS BEHIND THEM, YET DON'T SOUND LIKE THEY ARE HOSTED BY CURATORS OR ARROGANT EXPERTS, JUST FANS, CERTAINLY CAN BE A TEMPLATE THAT WORKS IN MANY MARKETS BEYOND NY, THERE IS SO MUCH GOOD ROCK MUSIC SIMPLY NOT EXPOSED ON ROCK RADIO TODAY .....

LYONS : When will the station be available online?

STEAL: A MATTER OF DAYS NOW.....

LYONS: Thanks again for the Sinceros tip, what's your latest undiscovered gem?

STEAL: TODAY MY FAVORITE SONG MIKE IS 'SAFE TOMORROW SUN' BY SURROUNDED, BUT YOU KNOW ME WELL MIKE, TOMORROW IT WILL BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT : )

LYONS: Thanks Jim and best of luck.

STEAL: THANK YOU MIKE, EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT WAS RAISED ON ROCK, WE ARE TREATING RXP AS A CALLING, A TRUE LABOR OF LOVE. OUR GOAL IS FOR THOSE LISTENING TO RXP TO BE ABLE TO TELL WE ARE FANS TOO.....WE WANT FATHERS AND THEIR KIDS LISTENING TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT HOW PINK FLOYD INFLUENCED COLDPLAY, AS WELL AS THE REPLACEMENTS INFLUENCING THE STAR SPANGLES, AND ON AND ON, GREAT ROCK KNOWS NO ERA....IT'S OUR GOAL TO GIVE ROCK CULTURE A HOME IN NYC, AND NOT JUST BE ANOTHER NARROW DIAL IT IN ROCK FORMAT...I GUESS YOU COULD SAY WE WANT TO HONOR THE GREAT NY ROCK RADIO OF THE PAST AND JUST AS IMPORTANTLY, BUILD UPON IT WITH THE GREAT ROCK MUSIC OF TODAY........

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A One-On-One With Ira Gordon, GM/PD, KBAC Santa Fe
 

Last year, in their company-wide downsizing move, Clear Channel announced that they were selling their stations in Santa Fe, New Mexico. A few months after it was announced that AAA KBAC and Smooth Jazz KSFQ were set to be sold to the Educational Media Foundation (EMF), KBAC General Manager and Program Director Ira Gordon attempted to gather a group of local investors to buy the venerable KBAC. Then this past March, A deal was worked  that EMF would sell KBAC to local broadcast ownership group, Hutton Broadcasting, once it took ownership. Hutton would keep Ira, his staff and AAA format intact. So, as the sale approaches closure, I thought it would be time to talk with Ira and bring us all up to date on the flourishing AAA broadcasting scene in Santa Fe/Albuquerque.

By Mike Lyons

LYONS: So, after over ten years as GM/PD at KBAC, CC's decision to sell must have looked like a done deal to EMF. But they didn't even need both stations for their needs. How did that come to pass? 

GORDON: To exit the market, CC obviously would sell KBAC and KSFQ. It dawned on us, to broadcast their syndicated Christian format they would only need one. My Sales Manager, Lisa Clark, and I put together a business plan over the holidays, knowing we'd eventually get to talk with them.

LYONS: I was so happy to see you attempt to gather enough capital to purchase the signal. What happened? 

GORDON: The GM of our town's public station (KSFR) came to us, and suggested joining the partnership as he could get financial backing. Everything looked rosy for months, as EMF agreed local management should get first dibs on buying KBAC, which they didn't need. Our Smooth Jazz station has a much better signal. We even threw a "Radio Free From Clear Channel" party, invited our old staff back, and the Mayor declared it "Radio Free Santa Fe" Day with a proclamation. Then, one fateful Monday, we learned the financier was backing out. He said he didn't know enough about the business to invest a $1 million. Later that morning, Honey Harris, my morning woman and seven year vet resigned to join our competition, INDIE 101.5. It had gotten a little depressing as the three of us ran our stations alone the last six months.

LYONS: What's the story about Hutton. Long, local tradition?

GORDON: Scott Hutton had worked as Territory Manager for American General Media for many years, based in Albuquerque with some Santa Fe stations, too. But like a lot of us, he had a dream. He started his own company, moved his family here, and has set up shop. As Lisa and I made the rounds of the local banks here to replace the investment costs, we were received warmly but when we added up the mounting expenses we started having doubts we could make it as a stand alone. Scott invited me to coffee and outlined his plan to buy KLBU and wondered if we would be interested in partnering if we'd let him buy KBAC. We mulled it over and realized this was a terrific opportunity. He said all the right things about leaving the station alone, local music, non-profits, even donating airtime to KSFR for pledge drives. Lisa and I cared less about owning the station than we did about saving the station. While I will be stepping down as GM, I will be the Director of Programming and  handle KLBU, KBAC, and the country station Hutton already owns. We plan to introduce more Americana into the format.

LYONS: I understand they have plans to start another AAA on KWRP, Indie 101.5 which Hutton already owns... What's the plan here? I understand that new PD Scott Matthews will put on a format that he did across the street at American General's KBOM, "High Altitude Rock". You all just gonna separate songs? 

GORDON: Two weeks after we signed up with Hutton we learned about the KWRP sale and their initial plans for the frequency. They're still deciding on some things but they're building on the "High Altitude Rock format. I can't give Sam Ferrara enough props for what he accomplished with INDIE in just a year. I understand their plan is to continue broadcasting on the Internet.

LYONS: Hutton owns chill-hybrid KLBU too. Is your old Promotion Director Joann Orner over there?

GORDON: Yes, in fact Joann has been programming it since Sam left BLU to start INDIE. The station has been sounding much better and she'll retain the title. She is looking forward to returning to middays at KBAC and we are both excited about getting to work together again.

LYONS: That's a lot of AAA touches across the FM dial in Santa Fe.

GORDON: It's a shame that Albuquerque has been shut out of the equation as none of our signals reach there. We have a lot of old listeners from when we did lamenting our absence.

LYONS: Just to ask the obvious question from the labels. Are the contact phone numbers and e-mails going to remain the same for KBAC under the new ownership?

GORDON: Probably not. We will change our physical location to Hutton's building. Second floor of an office building, with a beautiful view of the mountains. He is building a performance room that will be accessible by all five rooms. Down the road he plans an entirely new building.

LYONS: Congratulations on keeping your life and your dreams at AAA alive in Santa Fe.

GORDON: I've had so much help from incredibly talented and dedicated radio people over the years. Any PD will tell you with teamwork comes success.

LYONS: So, what’s your opinion on the new Internet royalty rates?

GORDON: Our streaming was pulled a year ago and we've made it a priority at the new company. I'm hoping this won't squash it. There must be a way for the record and radio companies to sit down at a table and figure something better.

LYONS: How was the KBCO 30 year reunion you went to?

GORDON: Since I don't go to class reunions, this was the closest thing. I hadn't seen some of these people in many years. Scott hosted a wonderful time for us, treated us like celebs and they promoted it heavily on air so we all had old fans waiting to talk to us. Ginger and I chatted like it hadn't been 12 years since we worked together!

LYONS: Can the new non-comm KCUV give them some real competition?

GORDON: That's a tough question. I competed against KBCO with KDHT for two years and never made a dent. They've been indestructible since the 80's!! Both stations are staffed with legendary Colorado jocks. 

LYONS: I know you love motion pictures almost as much as you love music, seen anything that nails you lately?

GORDON: There is a bizarre little Australian film called "Eagle vs. Shark" coming out this summer that stars one of the musician/comedians in that new HBO comedy series. Kind of a cross between Napoleon Dynamite and Little Miss Sunshine. The guy is a dead ringer for Mick Jagger. I saw "Oceans 13" on a digital projector and the colors just popped off the screen! I'm looking forward to seeing "Once" next week.

LYONS: Thanks for the time Ira and I wish you well in providing a great soundtrack in a lovely city.

 

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A One-On-One With Ted Edwards, The Planet Online,
Union Broadcasting, Kansas City

       

Classic Photo: Ted Edwards with the Dave Matthews Band and the late Scott Muni (left) at the WNEW-FM New York studios

By Dave Chaney

Ted Edwards has programmed major market heritage rock stations over the past two decades, including WNEW New York, WBAB Long Island, WCKW New Orleans, KGB San Diego and KLOL Houston. He was Los Angeles-based National Director of Album Promotion at Virgin Records from '96-'98. More recently, Ted signed on AAA KZPL (The Planet) in Kansas City and later moved the terrestrial station over to the net.

Dave: Ted, Most folks know of your coast to coast major market radio background and the fact that you had been PD of the commercial terrestrial AAA in Kansas City, The Planet, which moved to the Internet in September of 2005. So, just what have you been up to over the past year or so in KC at Union Broadcasting or, to quote Tom Waits, "What's he building in there?"

TED: I'VE BEEN UNION'S DIRECTOR OF PRODUCT DEVELOPMENT AND TO LIVE UP TO THE TITLE I'VE BEEN DEVELOPING STUFF! FIRST AND UNFORTUNATELY A FORMAT TO REPLACE THE PLANET. IF IT'S NOT OBVIOUS THAT WAS A DECISION THAT NO ONE WANTED TO MAKE. THE COMPANY LOVED THE STATION WHAT IT WAS, WHAT IT ACCOMPLISHED AND HOW IT SOUNDED BUT THE FINANCIALS JUST WEREN'T WHERE THEY NEEDED TO BE AND FOR A YOUNG LOCAL COMPANY THERE WAS ONLY SO MUCH TIME TO MAKE IT WORK. YET THE DEMISE OF THE PLANET CREATED THE PLANET ONLINE. THAT'S BEEN A GREAT LEARNING EXPERIENCE AND FUN TOO. SO NOW I'M FOCUSED ON THE AUDIO POSSIBILITIES OF THE NET, BEYOND JUST FILE SHARING AND DOWNLOADING SONGS, AND GRATEFUL FOR THE CHANCE TO DO THIS.

BUT AS YOU KNOW THE INTERNET RADIO WORD IS IN A DIFFICULT STATE SINCE THE RECENT DECISION BY THE COPYRIGHT ROYALTY BOARD ON INTERNET RADIO MUSIC ROYALTIES. IT'S A CONFUSING TIME. THE DECISION BRINGS UP MORE QUESTIONS THAN IT ANSWERS AND THE ANSWERED QUESTIONS, IF THEY HOLD UP UNDER APPEAL TO THE ROYALTY BOARD OR CONGRESS, ARE POTENTIALLY DEVASTATING TO JUST ABOUT EVERYONE EXCEPT THE BIG GUYS. I'M NOT AS OF TODAY SURE WHO THIS DECISION MIGHT SHUT DOWN OR WHAT STRATEGIES CAN BE DEVELOPED TO PROVIDE THE PASSIONATE STAND ALONE OPERATORS A WAY TO CONTINUE BUT I'M SURE THE SITUATION WILL CLEAR UP CONSIDERABLY AS EVERYONE HAS A CHANCE TO DIGEST IT OR SEEK RECOURSE. IT'S A GREEDY MESS AT THE MOMENT.

AS TO THE GENERAL NATURE OF THIS JOB, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A LOT OF THINGS. USING MY TALENTS AND EXPERIENCE AND PUTTING THEM INTO ACTION TO BENEFIT ALL OF UNION'S BUSINESSES. COST SAVING PROJECTS LIKE IN HOUSE AUDITORIUM MUSIC TESTING, TELEVISION PRODUCTION, MARKETING PROJECTS, NEGOTIATING SERVICE CONTRACTS, RETOOLING OUR INTERNET SITES FOR REVENUE GENERATION AND TURNING THE PLANET ONLINE FROM A MUSIC STREAM INTO A BUSINESS. THE PLANET ONLINE WAS A STREAM AND LISTENER SERVICE UNTIL LAST MARCH AND SINCE THEN A PROFIT CENTER. NOT A BIG PROFIT CENTER YET BUT WE'RE WORKING ON THAT.

DAVE: I understand that you have actually been involved hands-on in selling the site to local clients with some success?

TED: YEAH AND I'D IMAGINE I'VE WRITTEN MORE BUSINESS THAN ANY OF THE SALES PEOPLE. FIRST, BECAUSE I'VE GOT THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH CLIENTS THAT WERE THE FIRST TO COME ON BOARD AND THEY WERE FROMTHE CONCERT AND MUSIC BUSINESS. SECOND, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND IT AND HAVE THE PASSION. AND FINALLY, AT THIS POINT THERE'S A LOT MORE MONEY TO BE MADE BY THE SALES TEAM SELLING SPOTS ON THE STATIONS AND SO IT'S NOT THEIR FIRST THOUGHT WHEN THEY'RE OUT IN THE WORLD LOOKING FOR MONEY. AS INTERNET RADIO REACHES CRITICAL MASS, THAT ADVERTISERS JUST CAN'T RESIST THIS WILL CHANGE. THAT IS IF THE RIAA'S PLAN OR THE COPYRIGHT ROYALTY BOARD DOESN'T KILL MOST OF IT FIRST.

Dave: What is key to growing your online audience?

TED: SAME AS ANY STATION. EVERYTHING'S THE SAME RIGHT UP TO THE DELIVERY SYSTEM. IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE BUDGET DOESN'T ALLOW FOR THE KIND OF SUPPORT A TERRESTRIAL STICK IS GOING TO GET. I DO MOST OF THE WORK AND GET SOME HELP FROM THE REST OF THE VARIOUS STATION STAFFS WHEN I CAN. THE FINE FOLKS AT SBR STREAM IT AND HAVE ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN DENVER. I SEND THEM ORDERS AND MP3's WHEN WE NEED TO ADD ELEMENTS. I DO THE WEB SITE, WRITE THE EMAIL NEWSLETTERS AND MAINTAIN THE DATABASE. BY THE WAY, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE NEWSLETTER IS A PRIME REVENUE SOURCE. I TRY AND MAKE IT FUN FOR THE READERS/AUDIENCE AND IT'S A BIG PLUS WHEN WORKING WITH THE LOCAL PROMOTERS.

Dave: What other online-only radio stations do you check out regularly besides kcplanetonline.com?

TED: I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FOR NEW STATIONS AND ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY APPEAR TO BE MONETIZED. I LOVE THE KINK.FM SITES. THEY'RE FABULOUS. WOXY.COM. I REALLY DIG THE Y-100 STORY AND WHERE THAT'S GONE WITH WXPN. RADIO PARADISE. ACCURADIO. HOW MANY WOULD YOU LIKE? THERE'S SO MUCH OUT THERE, AT LEAST FOR THE MOMENT, FROM THE REDUNDANT TERRESTRIAL STREAMS OF BROADCAST STATIONS TO SITES THAT REALLY AREN'T STATIONS SO TO SPEAK, LIKE PANDORA, THAT ARE STILL FUN TO LISTEN TO.

Dave: I know that you are a big believer in the future of Internet radio and the incredible possibilities therein. There is obviously plenty going on with new media, satellite and HD radio. Where do you see net radio in the big digital picture in the coming years?

TED: COULD BE HUGE WITH TECHNOLOGIES LIKE WIMAX AND THE NATURAL PROGRESSION OF FANS AS THEY DISCOVER AUDIO ON THE INTERNET AND FIND A MUSICAL DESTINATION THAT FITS THEIR NEEDS. BUT THIS ROYALTY ISSUE HAS GOT TO BE DEALT WITH FIRST OR IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE ENTIRE PARADIGM. BUT THERE IS ONE SAVING GRACE IN THAT IT I THINK IT STILL LOOKS GOOD FOR NON-COMM'S. THEY SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ENTITY IN THE DECISION THAT WAS BEEN GIVEN SOME CONSIDERATION BEYOND THE BLANKET JUDGMENT. THANK GOD FOR THAT. MANY OF MY FAVORITE STATIONS ARE EXTENSIONS OF PUBLIC RADIO OPERATIONS AND BECAUSE OF THIS CONSIDERATION I THINK WE MAY SEE MORE NOT FOR PROFIT INTERNET STATIONS POP UP. REMEMBER YOU DON'T NEED TO BE IN THE PUBLIC BAND TO BE A NON-PROFIT ON THE WEB. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW? IF YOU'VE BEEN READING ABOUT THE FALLOUT IN MAJOR PUBLICATIONS LIKE FORBES, BUSINESS WEEK, MSNBC, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS AND SO ON THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION AND POSTURING GOING DOWN RIGHT NOW. IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE THE REAL PICTURE THROUGH THE FOG.

Dave: You have possibly programmed more major market stations than any other PD currently in the format. If you could, talk about the evolution of the AAA format to today from your perspective. And, your take on the growth in the format over the past five years of AAA non-comm? You actually started your career out in public radio, didn't you?

YEAH AND SOMETIMES I WISH I HAD STAYED THERE. I ADORE AND ADMIRE PUBLIC RADIO. IRA GLASS IS MY HERO. THE FIRST TWO BUTTONS ON MY CAR RADIO ARE THE BRIDGE AND KCUR-FM. ONE OF THE SIDE BENEFITS OF THE PLANET EXPERIENCE IS THAT JON HART AND I KEPT ON BUMPING INTO EACH OTHER AND BECAME FRIENDS. VERY SMART AND PASSIONATE MAN. LOVE HIS STATION, LOVE THE WORLD CAFE AND SO MUCH MORE AND I'M THRILLED TO SEE THE MARRIAGE BETWEEN AAA AND THE PUBLIC BAND. IT'S A NATURAL. HIGH QUALITY, FUN, INTELLIGENT RADIO WITH HIGH QUALITY, FUN INTELLIGENT MUSIC. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THIS PHRASE, THAT "AAA IS NPR ROCK"? AND THAT WAS SAID TO ME TO DESCRIBE COMMERCIAL AAA. IT'S THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS FOR LISTENERS, MUSIC FANS AND THE STATIONS. AS TO THE EVOLUTION OF AAA, IT'S MORE LIKE CREATIVE INTELLIGENCE DON'T YOU THINK? THAT WAS A JOKE BY THE WAY BUT IT DOES APPLY AND IT'S EVOLVING JUST FINE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY IS IT'S GROWING.

Dave: Many recall that you enjoyed a brief stint as Virgin Records promotion guy in Los Angeles in the mid '90s. Being in a very elite group of radio folks who have worked in records, I figure that qualifies you enough to kick in your two cents on the fluid state of the record biz. Oh, and will we ever see Ted wear the title of record promo dude again?

TED: IT WAS A GOOD LEARNING EXPERIENCE BUT I DON'T SEE ANYWAY THAT I'M GOING THERE AGAIN. AS TO THE INDUSTRY, I WISH IT WOULD JUST EXCEPT THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED AND WORK WITH THAT REALITY, AT THE SAME SPEED IT'S CHANGING AND STOP TRYING TO CONTROL AND FIGHT IT. IT PAINS ME. I LOVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK IN IT. THE COOL THING IS MORE PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO MORE MUSIC THAN EVER BEFORE, JUST FROM A LOT MORE SOURCES. FACT IS THE MUSIC HAS BEEN TAKEN BACK BY THE ARTISTS AND FANS. HOW DOES IT GO? WHOMEVER CONTROLS THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION CONTROLS AND DOMINATES???? THE INDUSTRY IS LOSING NOT ONLY THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION BUT THE MEANS OF DISTRIBUTION. NET NEUTRALITY IS SCARY IF IT MEANS YOU'RE LOSING CONTROL OF YOUR BABY. THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR ASSOCIATED WITH LOSING CONTROL AND ISN'T THAT THE ESSENCE OF WHAT'S GOING ON? DECISIONS BASED ON STRAPPING ON BLINDERS, ANGER AND FEAR USUALLY ARE POOR DECISIONS. THE MANTRA NEEDS TO BE "GO WITH THE FLOW," "SIT IN THE CURRENT AND ENJOY THE RIDE" EVEN IF IT IS A DIGITAL STREAM. OH, AND GETTING RID OF MOST OF THE LAWYERS WOULD BE A HUGE HELP AND COST EFFECTIVE TOO. SUING SOME KID'S FAMILY INTO THE POOR HOUSE SURE DIDN'T SEEM TO WORK.

Dave: Thanks, Ted.

TED: NO! THANK YOU DAVE!

Contact: Ted Edwards
phone 913.344.1586  email

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A One-On-One With Brad Savage, PD,  WCNR (The Corner) Charlottesville

      

By Dave Chaney

WCNR (The Corner) is a new commercial Triple A radio sign-on in Charlottesville, Virginia.   

DAVE: Hey Brad, Congrats on the new sign-on! It's not everyday that you get to be a part of a brand new station; how's it going so far in your new "The Corner" of the world, coming from programming WQKL Ann Arbor?

BRAD: Well, it's very unusual for a brand new station to sign-on in 2006. WCNR is unique in that it involved a complex move of signals in Harrisonburg, VA to make room for 106.1 FM to sign on in Charlottesville. It's literally a new signal in the market, and listener response has been highly positive already! The listeners in Albemarle County are really excited for a full-time "progressive music" format and an intelligent, exciting, different kind of commercial radio station. It was hard to leave WQKL and such a good crew in a great Big 10 city, but Martin Bandyke, John Bommarito, and Mark Copeland at "ann arbor's 107one" will keep the place running without missing a beat. Meanwhile, how can you say no to a sign-on opportunity in such a historic area with such a nice, warmer climate? The station name, "The Corner" refers to a local geographic landmark. "The Corner" is a cool area of stores, restaurants, clubs, and bars right near the end of the UVA Grounds. It's the "hip" area of town and it's very historic.

DAVE: So that's the tie-in. Can we listen to the new station online yet? To give us a bit of an idea, what other Triple A stations might you compare the sound of "The Corner" to?

BRAD: Well, long before I was involved, Saga Communications learned of this new signal opportunity and instituted a format study from Mark Ramsey and Mercury Research. The "hole" indicated a desire for a Triple A format, custom-designed for the Charlottesville market. The highest passion was for artists like Cure, Depeche Mode, Clash, and '90s Alt mainstays like Sublime, Nirvana, and even bands like Toadies or Mighty Mighty Bosstones. Our style of Triple A is a more focused on 25-44 and 30-somethings in particular. We do play Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, and John Mellencamp (and even Van Morrison, The Beatles, and Bob Dylan) but more in a "respect the timeless artists" spice position. We also have a deep "image" category that can play anything from Lo-Fidelity All Stars to Velvet Underground to Lucinda Williams to Iggy Pop. It's all about the music – a mile wide and an inch deep! I guess WDOD/Chattanooga, WVOD/Outer Banks, NC, KBXR/Columbia, MO or KENZ/Salt Lake City might be somewhat similar. We also share a lot of music with Blue State Alternative stations like KNRK/Portland, Q-101/Chicago, KRBZ/Kansas City, WFNX/Boston, and KBZT/San Diego. When I say we lean "somewhat" Alternative, please note that we do not play active rock crossover bands like Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, Disturbed, etc… nor do we play the "emo" sound like My Chemical Romance or Fall Out Boy (too young). Our cluster also includes a heritage rocker and AC station, so that explains a little bit of the 30-something focus (as opposed to upper end). Finally, yes, we are now streaming at 1061thecorner.com.

DAVE: You have really assembled a talented and seasoned airstaff, coming from three great Triple A stations, Tad Abbey from WVOD (The Sound) Outer Banks, Jeff Sweatman from 'BXR Columbia and Jaclyn Piermarini from WUIN (The Carolina Penguin) Wilmington. Tell us a little about the company, your new kids in town and what they bring?

BRAD: We are Charlottesville Radio Group, which is part of Saga Communications. Saga also owns heritage Triple A WRSI/Northhampton-Springfield, MA, which is a great station! In C-Ville, we have a five station cluster including News/Talk WINA, Progressive Talk WVAX, AC WQMZ ("Z-95.1"), and Rock WWWV ("3WV"). Tad, Jaclyn, and Jeff are great, passionate staffers who bring plenty of experience and (more importantly) passion and "real-ness" to the station. They would listen to the station if they did not work here. You can't fake passion and being a music fan! Tad handles mornings and imaging/production, computer stuff, and general APD-type duties. Tad also has experience as PD at a Top 40 sister in addition to MD duties at WVOD/Outer Banks, so he thinks like a programmer and that helps in the key morning daypart. Jeff does afternoons and also serves as Music Director. Jeff is a huge music nerd and really has a great ear. He had been at BXR since 1993 (impressive run), and sounds great on-air. Jaclyn is doing lots of website stuff and promotions help. All hosts will also handle some kind of specialty show or special music feature. All of them bring lots of great relationships to the station which will help us grow. I'm really excited as the evolution phase is now beginning, and the station is really starting to come to life every day! 

DAVE: What about your background in radio, Brad, are you originally from Ann Arbor?

BRAD: No, actually my stay in Michigan was cut short. I am from Minneapolis originally, and spent 4 years doing weekends and a specialty show at Cities 97. My first on-air gig was with the critically revered REV 105/Minneapolis in the late '90s. I also worked for Tom Kay's office at The Conclave/Main Street for a couple years. I went to Columbia, MO to program Rock/Alternative KBBM ("100.1 The Buzz") but also helped with KBXR under Jack Lawson. From there, I went to WMAD/Madison, an Alternative station that fell victim to strong competition (Triple A WMMM, Top 40 WZEE, and Active WJJO) and college kids who don't listen to radio anymore. When Clear Channel flipped WMAD to country, they opened the door to sister WQKL/Ann Arbor… which is a great station with an excellent staff and solid numbers. But – a brand new sign on in a great city like C-Ville, and with Saga, how can you say no?

DAVE: No doubt. Charlottesville has gotta be a cool place to live. Besides being a college town, I hear that it is growing fast with new urban arrivals? What's unique about programming in the market?

BRAD: Well, the city is ready for a full-time station like ours. It's "fertile ground" for Triple A. C-Ville is an active, eclectic, intelligent lifestyle area with good jobs. It's very much a growing area (and also highly expensive like Ann Arbor), and we're nearby to so much history. We're only 2 hours from Washington DC, about 70 miles from Richmond, and just 2.5 hours to Virginia Beach/Norfolk. Also, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and James Monroe hail from the Charlottesville area. Even Edgar Allen Poe went to school here at UVA! ATO Records, Musictoday and Red Light Management are here, and they book several venues in town. The town outperforms its size for caliber artists who play here. And of course, it's the hometown of Dave Matthews Band…

DAVE: There is already an established non-comm in the market, WNRN. Musically, do both stations have pretty separate, defined turf or are we in for a little old-fashioned competition? What specialty shows do you air? I see that you have already initiated “The Corner Lounge” for visiting artists; how's that working for you guys?

BRAD: WNRN does a great job and has about 10-12 years heritage. They've been unopposed as the local Alternative, Triple A, Folk/Americana, and Hip Hop station. Their sound gets "harder" as the day progresses. They use a block programming format with Folk/Americana in mornings, traditional Triple A in middays, and Alternative afternoons (311 and Sublime to Flyleaf, Trapt, Breaking Benjamin, and Disturbed). At night, they run a hip hop show. Despite the multiple genres, it flows very well and has a cohesive-ness, and in that sense we're more "tight" or focused. Our overall delivery is probably what you'd expect from a commercial radio Triple A. While we throw some curveballs, we probably won't go as wide as to play Greg Brown or Three Days Grace on a daily basis. The Corner Lounge is our series of in-studio interviews and acoustic performances, which is going very well so far! We've already had Carbon Leaf (local faves!), Peter Bradley Adams, Brian Vander Ark (The Verve Pipe), Shiny Toy Guns and more in The Corner Lounge! Also, we're rolling out daily specials including a local music feature and jam band song of the day. We also have specialty shows in the works for new music/indie rock, and Chillville, our chill music show (among others).

DAVE: So, regarding your homeboy, has "The Corner" had the official blessing of Dave Matthews yet?

BRAD: We're working on it! Dave splits his time between Charlottesville and several locations (and constant touring) but many of the band members live here year round. Also with ATO, Musictoday, and Red Light Management here we are hopeful to work on special events with DMB in the future. They just played two sold-out shows to christen the brand new John Paul Jones Arena, a beautiful new 12,000-seat venue on the UVA Grounds (Eric Clapton also played there my first week in town, and RHCP/Gnarls Barkley are coming in January).  I have also heard that the original screenwriter for WKRP In Cincinnati lives in this area, so we have to get him involved in 106-1 The Corner!!!! 

DAVE: Just avoid any promotions that have to do with turkeys raining out of the sky! Well, thanks Brad, and best of luck to you and your staff at "The Corner" in the coming year!

BRAD: Thanks Dave! Keep up the good work on Triplearadio.com, I read it every week! 

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A ONE-ON-ONE with Jon Hart, PD, KTBG (The Bridge) Warrensburg-Kansas City

KTBG's Jon Hart with Blue Note's Jill Weindorf at the Boulder AAA Summit

By Dave Chaney

KTBG-FM 90.9 (The Bridge) is located in Warrensburg, Missouri and is a broadcast service of the University of Central Missouri. 

DAVE: Hi Jon, how did your fall fund raising go?

JON: We just finished our fall pledge drive; it was our second best ever with last spring at the top of the list. Together this years drives are a third larger than last year.

DAVE: How much of your audience are non-university listeners?

JON: We have ardent supporters on campus, but the vast majority of our listeners and members come from the Kansas City Metro.

DAVE: I understand that you are an old commercial "rock dog" from the market? Where were your formidable rock radio years in the market?

JON: I was at KYYS for about 15 years, including a six-year stint in morning drive with Max Floyd. That's where I came up with the Elvis parade, which still attracts 20,000 people a year to downtown KC for KY. I also did a few years of talk, and some sports talk at KCMO and KMBZ in Kansas City.

DAVE: Was it difficult transitioning from a commercial environment to a non-commercial environment?

JON: The hardest part is trying to live up to the standard set by our colleagues. The commercial side requires constant attention to a return on investment for the owners. The non-com side is listener driven, which is no less demanding but more rewarding for me personally. I don't think of myself as a commercial radio guy doing non-com. I'm a non-com guy who did commercial radio for 30 years.

DAVE: How about when you took the station from its heritage jazz-leaning format to Triple A? How did that go?

JON: I don't like to disenfranchise anyone, but it wasn't workable. Like any format change we took our lumps and moved on.

DAVE: Your signal reaches into the Kansas City Metro so you must take some comfort in knowing that you out lasted the Planet, KZPL, at least terrestrially speaking. How did their presence change the dynamics of the market and have you changed your approach to programming since?

JON: Ted Edwards did a great job with the Planet, but the purchase price required a faster build than you normally get with a Triple A start up. We've seen a deepening of our relationships with concert promoters since the Planet's shift. They diluted our presence, now we're working hard and getting it back. The biggest change we've seen is in the increased membership I mentioned earlier.

DAVE: What's your take on terrestrial radio thriving amidst the onslaught of new media like satellite and Internet radio?

JON: In my mind the competition is coming from everywhere. I imagine we're losing as many listeners to cell phones as we are to satellite radio. We're expanding our broadband streaming, and I'll keep looking for new ways to take the Bridge cross platform, but the best thing we can do is stay in service of the listener.

DAVE: What is your biggest challenge day-to-day at the station?

JON: We have a strong, but small staff so we all have to wear a lot of different hats. I think the hardest thing is switching jobs…one minute you're listening to music, the next you're working on the pledge drive, direct mail, or researching for an in-studio.

DAVE: What is your big promotion of the year at The Bridge? 

JON: We've just finished putting together our first CD of in-studio performances, and that's been gratifying. Lynn Grossman and Daniel Higbee did a great job with clearances and pushing the project through. It features a strong lineup of artists and the cover artwork has been donated by Reuben award winning cartoonist Patrick McDonnell the creator of Mutts. We're also readying an ongoing program where our member guide doubles as direct mail, with additional distribution through retail outlets.

DAVE: What is something, a "little-known" fact, about Jon Hart that industry folks might not know?

JON: I started a corporation with some friends right out of high school. We sold fireworks, took on a lot of debt, and started a traditional country FM station at the Lake of the Ozarks. We paid off the debt, and we're still going 26 years later. Our signature program is Tradio. If anyone reading this has something to buy, sell, or trade call me and I'll give you the station's number.

DAVE: Thanks, Jon!

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A ONE-ON-ONE with Loren Dixon, PD, KNBA Anchorage

By Mark Radway

KNBA is part of the Koahnic Broadcast Corporation (KBC). They are a non-profit, Alaska Native-governed and operated media center located in Anchorage, Alaska. Loren Dixon has programmed KNBA for 6 or 7 years now. He helped the station sign on in the Anchorage Market in October of 1997.

RAD: Hello Loren. You're famous for traveling the farthest distance to attend the NON-COMMvention each year! How did you happen to end up in a remote spot like Alaska and how did you come about establishing yourself as a public radio honcho? 

LOREN: Wow… famous for taking long flights… hmmm, that doesn't sound very cool. I actually grew up in Anchorage. The rest of my family moved away so I figured the place was mine and I should stay! To avoid math classes, and college in general, I found work in radio when I was about 18. After several years of commercial broadcasting in Anchorage at AOR and Hot AC stations, I figured there had to be more programming creativity than "another 10 in a row". I was intrigued by AAA around 1992 and pitched the idea to my GM when they were bringing on a new signal. They ended up choosing Hot AC. I pitched the format idea again in 1996 to Koahnic Broadcast Corporation who were signing on a new Public Radio signal.
They liked the format idea and the audience it would attract and off we went! After the first PD quit, she went back to commercial rock, it was my station to direct. The level of creativity afforded to me by Koahnic Broadcast Corporation makes it easy to stick around and enjoy.

RAD: So you grew up there; are you a Native Alaskan?

LOREN: I am not Alaska Native.

RAD: Tell us a little about KNBA's programming. I know you play plenty of local Native American music, but, how much of your programming is devoted to non-native AAA music?

LOREN: Roughly 65% of our program schedule can be considered AAA music. But on KNBA, AAA includes Native artists and announcers. So we don't really consider AAA to be exclusivley non-Native. A basic example: a AAA station can lean a little more towards Americana in rotation and imaging and still be AAA… simply consider that KNBA leans more Native. Another 30% (approx.) of our schedule does include programs that could be considered specifically Native in content. Programs of Music, News and Public Affairs. The mission of Koahnic Broadcast Corporation is to the leader in bringing Native voices to the region and nation. KBC produces national programming including Native America Calling, National Native News, Earthsongs and Undercurrents. They also have a training program locally that provides KNBA with Native youth interns. In Anchorage, KNBA is a conduit for Native issues, programs and music but does not need to broadcast only those things. And we shouldn't if we want to compete and survive in the Anchorage market (pop. 270,000). The Alaska Native community supports and celebrates KNBA's Native indentity as part of the urban radio landscape. AAA works well as our format and attracts a large, Native and non-Native audience that enjoy's non-mainstream voices.

RAD: Being in such a remote area, what unique challenges do you face that perhaps some of our "lower 48" AAA stations may not have to deal with?

LOREN: Anchorage is very Urban. Very much like everywhere else these days. The great thing about Anchorage is that Alaska is just a short drive away. But, it was only 25 years ago when we first started getting "live" sports on TV. What might be considered unique is that 270,000 people are locked into a tight geographic location with very little ability to physically explore other communities, hear other radio stations or experience bigger urban cultures. You can't drive to that big town where all the cool concerts are held. That would be a four-day drive to Vancouver, BC. This tends to make our community crave the mainstream so that they don’t feel remote or like they’re missing the fun… but that's a not unique. Ok… bears and moose in the city. That's a challenge that is unique.

RAD: With non-comm budgets often tight, how difficult is it to find quality air-staff in Anchorage? You mentioned that KBC operates a media training facility dedicated to increasing the number of Native people employed in media fields. Sounds like a great way to nurture talent in the community; do you have any on-air staff that have gone though this program?

LOREN: Our afternoon announcer, who is Athabascan, went through our training program. She loves AAA and presents it with passion! There's lot's of talent out there. If you can't afford them as paid staff, consider volunteer programming. We incorporate several volunteer hosted programs on the weekend. Some of my best "talent" are volunteers.

RAD: Are you the only radio source for AAA music in the market?

LOREN: No other station in Anchorage comes close. 

RAD: I know the routing must tight when it comes to shows. Do you ever get national touring acts stop by the station? Does the fact of fewer national touring acts stopping by increase the local spotlight?

LOREN: National touring has increased over the last 10 years thanks to… well, us. We're playing the artists that a local promoter loves and always wanted to hear in Anchorage. Coincidentally he started his promotion business the same year we came on air. We have certainly helped each other a lot. 90% of the artists swing through the station. Artists over the last year, just to name a few: Los Lobos, Indigenous, Lucinda Williams, Buddy Miller, Dan Bern, Laura Viers, Big Head Todd & the Monsters, Erin McKeown, Young Doubliners, David Grisman, Michael Franti… still to come The Duhks, Chris Smither, Cheryl Wheeler, The John Butler Trio. Because of more active national touring through Anchorage, our local artists are growing in leaps and bounds. They also get airtime on KNBA. I think a few could really impress a national audience.

RAD: Your station is obviously the voice of the Native American community. But, that being said, how do you attract and keep the non-Native listener tuned in, say, a new arrival?

LOREN: The Music. Whether you're Native or Non-Native, the music is strong enough to attract an audience of all cultures. Our station also has a great sense of local identity. I think listeners are attracted to that as much as the music itself.

RAD: Your thoughts on how radio is doing amongst the new media invasion (satellite radio, net radio, etc.)?

LOREN: It's waning. I think broadcasters must embrace local flavor and personality. Station owners and GMs, not just programmers, need to challenge themselves. Develop talent. Trust talent. Listeners no longer rely on radio to hear the new hit song. They can get that several different ways with much more immediacy than radio. Local, trustworthy talent is a consistent winner with listeners.

RAD: Just one more question, Loren. Will we see you in Louisville at the NON-COMM in May?

LOREN: I've only missed one… nine hours of flying and I'm there. 

www.knba.org

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A ONE-ON-ONE with Dave Sloan, MD, DMX Music

By Shana 
Triplearadio.com Contributing Editor 

SHANA: Dave, as Music Director, how many formats are you involved with at DMX?
 
DAVE: All music. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of having just one station to nurture. I have many kids to watch, includes our Kids channel, Classic Rock, Hard Rock, College Rock, Alternative, Flashback, New Wave (80's Alternative hits), Reality Bites (90's Alternative hits), as well as our AAA station called Folk Rock.

SHANA: Okay, exactly where is DMX heard…and how is it delivered?

DAVE: DMX Music is delivered to a subscriber's home or business via cable, digital cable, or direct broadcast satellite throughout the world. Businesses that don't have DBS can also receive us through our Profusion platform. 

SHANA: Explain for us lay people what a Profusion platform is and how it works.

DAVE: Our Profusion platform is an audio and video marketing system, a digital media system that includes everything from messaging, audio and videos to dynamic point-of-sale and in-store advertising. This platform allows for us to create unique musical experiences for our commercial customers. So, if I program Classic Rock for our DBS system I create a completely different Classic Rock program designed for our commercial customers. So I program Two Classic Rock channels, two Alternatives and so on. It all depends on what we are trying to accomplish with each program and who the customer is for each platform. Another example - we also programs shows for the various Airlines.  I have to be very particular and sensitive to lyrical content, as you can only imagine.

SHANA: That's an insane amount of weekly music programming….how do you handle all the product that comes in for all these formats?

DAVE: It's crazy!! I program for so many formats I get an inordinate amount of new music and I try to get to everything even our Metal Channel. In between all this, I try to stay on top of my Fantasy Football and Baseball teams. 

SHANA: That seems to be a very popular thing in this biz…having some fun outside of the business phone calls and emails. And you always seem to have time to find some very odd and amusing info on your cover sheets for your playlists.

DAVE: For some reason, people in the AAA community have always looked forward to my emails. I used this in the beginning as bait to try to get people to look at our playlists. Now the pressure is on me every week to find something interesting. You can’t always find something great like www.talklikeapirate.com or http://www.ps260.com/molly/SHINING%20FINAL.mov but I try.

SHANA: With all the formats you cover, all the music you review and of course, finding strange things to share with the radio/record community, what's the "non-business Dave" like, after hours?

DAVE: Look I wish I could fill up your pages with tales of debauchery but the truth of the matter I'm just your typical suburban guy that enjoys his days off coaching soccer to Madeline (10) and Emma (6), trying to watch everything my Tivo tells me to watch and kicking the Radman's ass in Fantasy Football! I also enjoy dressing up like Judy Garland in Meet Me in St. Louis. Wait, can you strike that last part?

SHANA: No, I'm afraid I can’t do that, Dave. It's just so you. 

www.dmxmusic.com

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A ONE-ON-ONE with Stacy Owen, PD/MD, WFPK Louisville

RAD: Well Stacy, it has been quite sometime since you took over the programming duties at WFPK. How has the transition gone jumping from the MD chair to the PD chair?

STACY: It's been a little crazy! This first year I've been on the air 9am-noon, as well as handled both PD and MD duties. I've recently been given the money to hire someone to take over my air shift. I've been much more relaxed and accessible to my staff. I think the hardest part of being promoted from within is making the transition from being "one of the guys" to being "the boss," but everyone's been very patient with me.

RAD: Where did you cut your teeth in radio and whom would you consider your mentor(s)?

STACY: I began an internship at WNKU, Northern Kentucky University's public radio station, in 1984. Ed McDonald hosted afternoon drive and a bluegrass show on Sunday. We produced a live performance/interview series from recordings gathered at the Appalachian Festival in Cincinnati titled Treasure Appalachia. This is the first project I was truly proud of. I learned a lot of the basics of radio production and interviewing skills that I still draw on today from him. Ed is blind, and I think the most powerful thing he taught me was how to really listen. To music, to someone you're interviewing, to your colleagues. And of course there's this guy named Dan Reed who I met several years later. He taught me how to rock 'n' roll and be more "promo-sexual"!

RAD: WFPK's Public Radio Partnership with the community borders legendary. This may be a loaded softball question…but, what makes 'FPK so special?

STACY: This may sound corny, but there is something magical about the relationship between WFPK and our listeners. The first thing I noticed when I moved here was the passion people have for music and the arts in this community. The WFPK air-staff also has a passion for what they do that connects with listeners. A partnership with arguably the best independently owned music store in the country, earX-tacy Records, has only strengthened this relationship. The airplay translates to something tangible through record sales. Labels really sit up and take notice!

RAD: What tools does management give you to maintain these relationships and create new ones? 

STACY: Trust. I feel like management values the years of experience I've had in the format and I'm trusted to make the right decisions for the station. Public Radio Partnership also has incredible underwriting and development departments with lots of ties to the community. Since I’m not originally from Louisville I rely on them for great advise. I also have invaluable support from the PRP marketing team. Some readers may know Billy Hardison and Mindy Fulner who also help produce the NON-COMMvention.

RAD: With the Sixth Annual NON-COMMvention coming up May 18th–20th - and coming off the Philly event - are you looking forward to having the convention back where it all started?

STACY: Yes! Philly was great, but I've had so many folks tell me they just feel more at home here in Louisville. 

KFAN PD Rick Star with artist Sheila Marshall


By Mark Radway

Fredericksburg is located about 75 miles west of Austin up in the Texas Hill Country. KFAN (The Fan) covers a large chunk of the Lone Star state, including the legendary communities of Kerrville and Luckenback. The station is heard via KFAN 107.9FM/KEEP 103.1FM/KNAF 105.7FM/KNAF 910AM and streaming online at www.texasrebelradio.com. The Fan presents Windows On Texas, an annual Texas music showcase, January 13-15, 2006.

RAD: KFAN is in Fredericksburg, Texas, the home of “Texas Rebel Radio.” Rick, what the heck is “Texas Rebel Radio?”

RICK: It is a network of stations that the world said couldn't be done. And through amazing listener support, it has been very successful as a commercial radio outlet. KFAN/KEEP is the heart of Texas Rebel Radio. Formatted as a Triple A/Americana hybrid with a Texas outlaw attitude.

RAD: Fredericksburg is in an area of Texas called the “Hill Country.” When I was there last January I had a hard time finding any hills. Why do they call them that and where did they hide them?

RICK: There are a lot of hills, not mountains in the Hill Country of Texas. Rad, all I can say is, you must have had way too much fun the last time you visited for Windows On Texas!

RAD: Rick, what's the radio landscape like in your market and what kind of reach does the station have? 

RICK: The radio landscape is wide open and KFAN/KEEP reaches an eleven-county area.

RAD: So, who's the typical "rebel radio listener"?

RICK: One who believes in all music, especially the independent singer/songwriter.

RAD: What's your story, Rick! Have you followed a long and winding radio road?

RICK: Not so much long, but very winding. After a stint in Southeast Asia in the very early '70s, I returned home used my G.I. Bill and went to the University of Alabama earning a BA in Communications. I have worked in Birmingham, Atlanta, Tulsa, Marble Falls, Texas and, of course, found my home here in Fredericksburg at Texas Rebel Radio, The Fan.

RAD: Your station is becoming very well known for its Windows On Texas three-day music festival. I attended it last year and it was a blast! It seemed as if the whole community was involved with this event! The fourth annual is coming up January 13th–15th. In a nutshell, how did it get started and how has it changed over the past three years?

RICK: I was not here when it started. This will be my third Windows On Texas event. But, as you know South By Southwest is the most music-intensive conference in the world and it happens in Austin. We believe that our Texas artists need a conference to showcase, so hence Windows On Texas. Since I have been here we have added panels and since that time we have gotton a lot more representation from the professional music community. This year we are adding film. The event just takes on a life of its own, getting bigger and better ever year.

RAD: Last question, Rick. If you were not doing radio, what would you be doing?

RICK: Probably pushing up Blue Bonnets!!

www.texasrebelradio.com 

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A ONE-ON-ONE with Doug Donoho, PD/MD, KLRR Bend



By Shana
Triplearadio.com Contributing Editor 

Bend, Oregon was originally called Farewell Bend and received its name because it was at this place that travelers over the pioneer roads had their last view of the river. Bend is nearly the geographic center of the state and is also the most populated city in Central Oregon. To the west, Bend is surrounded by U.S. Forest Service land, and to the east, high desert and vegetation. The recreational opportunities are abundant; everything from mountain biking, hiking, rafting, golfing, fishing, rock climbing, camping, downhill and cross country skiing, snowmobiling, general sightseeing and much more. More and more people are discovering this paradise. When he moved here in 1990, the population of Bend was around 17,000.  Now, it is over 60,000 and growing by the month.

SHANA: How did you and your wife Dori come to do mornings together and how did that work out for you both?

DOUG: In the fall of 2003, we had a change on the morning show and that created an opportunity to try something different. A husband and wife morning show. Dori had been working nights and hosting her one hour local music show, Homegrown, and I really hadn't thought of doing mornings, I have always been the afternoon drive guy. I like sleeping in. Getting up at 3:15 in the morning to be on by 5:30 is tough. The best content was about marriage and relationships and the differences between men and women. But what I found was that after the morning show, Dori was finished, and my day was just beginning. I still had to work on promotions, schedule music, listen to music and talk music. By 4pm, my day was done, and so was I. MJ Matthews, who did afternoons at KCAL, rose to the challenge and on January 1st, 2005 he joined Dori for a new revamped morning show. I signed them both to a 30 year contract that they'll never get out of. Never!

SHANA: Tell us about some of your most recent promotional events.

DOUG: We are pleased to be a part of some of the area's biggest events. Including our own Clear Summer/Winter Nights Concert Series, which in the past few years has featured, Lucinda Williams, Bruce Hornsby, Robben Ford, Jonatha Brooke, Boz Scaggs and Steve Winwood. We have been the media partner for the Parks and Recreation Department, Scholarship Fundraiser, hosting The Fall Festival and Pumpkin Patch in October. Plus, the Old Fashion July 4th at the Park, where thousands come to spend the day playing games, eating and listening to some great Homegrown music. This year, we celebrated our 20th anniversary by throwing a free Listener Appreciation Concert with Marc Broussard. Dori again put a team together for the Relay for Life benefit which helped raise over $80,000 for the American Cancer Society. We are all over the local music scene but we are also all about being a vital part of this community.  
 
SHANA: Your favorite personal things in life?

DOUG: I have four kids, four wonderful grandkids, and a beautiful wife who lets me live. My favorite food 25 years ago was Honeycomb cereal out of the box, for lunch, some Kraft macaroni and cheese - extra cheese please - and a package of Oreos. But today, I try to be a bit more health conscious. But you will never convince me to give up my ice cream. Favorite bands: Dio, Iron Maiden, Bon Jovi, Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers. Favorite TV shows: Law & Order, all of them. Daily Show With Jon Stewart and Real Time With Bill Maher. They tell it like it is. 
   
SHANA: Okay, Doug, you're favorite color is green, you're a die-hard Packers fan since birth and you wish for world peace...care to add anything else?

DOUG: Finally, just a few shout-outs to some friends in the business who go above and beyond every single week and continue to support stations like ours in small markets across America. Some, I have met, others, I hope to. Jesse Barnett, Christi Stevens, Mark Radway, Lisa Sonkin, Jeff Cook, Brian Corona and Chrissy Zagami. I love you, man!  

www.clear101.7fm

By Shana
Triplearadio.com Contributing Editor 
 
90.9* KVNF The Voice of North Fork Public Radio is nestled in Paonia, Colorado on the gorgeous Western Slope of Colorado, across the Continental Divide and in the luscious North Fork of the Gunnison River Valley. KVNF is grassroots, creative, volunteer-based, community oriented public radio that has served Western Colorado for 25 years. The station was conceived by one Campbell Stanton and a few of his cronies and is located smack dab in the middle of cowboy, coal miner, fruit farmer, cattle rancher and burgeoning hippie communities.

*KVNF is also heard on 89.1 FM in Delta-Montrose-Olathe-Norwood, 98.3 FM in Crawford, 88.9 FM in Ridgway, 90.1 FM in Ouray, 88.7 FM in Lake City and 99.1 FM in the Grand Valley

SHANA: How did you get started in radio?

CANDY: Nineteen years ago I had been helping out "Sister D" who was the reigning MD at the young KVNF played great music, had a terrific staff of hip volunteer music lovers, a budget the size of a very worn shoestring and high, high hopes. "Sister D" and "Stretch" rode out of their yard one beautiful Colorado afternoon, pointed their ponies north and were after an adventure. I was left behind to mind the store and became the interim MD at KVNF. Working off of instinct, a love of all types of music and the best husband in the world who had been DJ' ing since the 60's in Boulder, I took to the task and loved every moment of opening LPs (yikes), previewing the music, tagging the albums, talking with incredible folks on the phone, reporting to The Gavin and the Zimmer Twins and offering the music to the cosmos.
When Sister D returned from the horseback ride to the Canadian Rockies she discovered that she was pregnant and handed the reins to me! 19 years, several GMs, many LP's and Tons of CD's later I am more committed to the task than ever.

SHANA: How many CD's do you actually get to listen?

CANDY: I receive an obscene amount of music each week…on average about 60-80 CD's  per week. I preview all the music at home, in the car, at the station and in my dreams. 

SHANA: How much input does your airstaff have?

CANDY: I offer the generous rainbow of music to the DJ's who have excellent taste and know how to stretch. I talk incessantly on Tuesdays (my call day) at the station and l truly cherish every person that calls me. The Sean Coakley's and Bob Laul's and Terry Coen's and Crystal Ann's and Jane Dashow's and Sue Stillwagon's and Heavy Lenny's and Jennifer Daunt's and Mel Farina's and David Fleischman's and Brad Hunt's and Jack Hopke's and Jesse Barnett's and Leslie Rouffe's and, ofcourse, Shana Livigni's, are people who I love, respect and consider old friends! I have made great new friends as our reporting has expanded to CMJ, Americana, Living Blues and more. I am surrounded by great ears and kind faces and genuine volunteers. We have the best DJ's. We have an eclectic and enlightened sound. 
 
SHANA: What's in the future for KVNF and who are your key players?

CANDY: Currently KVNF is in the midst of a Capital Campaign to move down the block into an old bar that we have purchased and are renovating and I am looking very forward to the new home for all of us at KVNF. We have endured, persevered and are ready for skylights and a green building. Our GM, Sally Kane grew up on KVNF (her Mother and family were originals at the station!) Her sidekick Philip (he is the Zen Master of Proustian cool and excellent with numbers) - they have turned things around for all of us. Jeff Reynolds has done everything possible at the radio and continues to this day to contribute his wealth of knowledge, commitment and extremely wonderful radio voice. Felix Belmont is our retired Chicago executive  who has been roasted too many times (the last was when he turned 80 a few years ago!) and who has "worked the room" for us from the beginning. Our Board of Directors lends their responsible devotion and sensibility to the insanity of life in Public Radio. Skip Naft from over the hill at KDNK joined up with us recently as our Volunteer Coordinator and Music Librarian and he keeps it hiphoppin'.  

SHANA: How would you sum up your job at KVNF?

CANDY: We are a radio station with a survival instinct and a very bright future. I love the people. I love the music. I love my job!

www.kvnf.org

---

A ONE-ON-ONE with KFOG PD Dave Benson
 

I met Dave Benson in a Jerry Seinfeld/Keith Hernandez moment back in, I think it was 1980. I was visiting Chicago to see my Florida friends Brock Whaley and Bob Stroud's new station, WMET, where Tom Teuber and Bill Evans were also on the staff. Tom and Dave were just coming in as PD and MD respectively and I was on vacation from WDIZ in Orlando where I was enjoying a nice long run in morning drive. So, on one Saturday afternoon we all ended up moving Dave Benson into his new downtown Chicago apartment.
No problem though. It was a first floor apartment off Lincoln Park and Dave didn't have any marble coffee tables or solid-cypress book cases.
It didn't take that long and afterward we watched the first SCTV episode I ever saw. The one where Dave Thomas, as hyperkinetic Japanese TV personality Tim Ishimuni, interviews Japanese horror movie star, Grogan, (John Candy, hovering hugely next to Thomas in a giant lizard costume).
Tim: "Grogan! What scares you Grogan?"
Grogan: "Well, high power lines are a bit of a problem, Tim."
We all doubled over.
Dave had enjoyed a great run in Wisconsin AOR before WMET but just a few years later surprised us all by forsaking radio to become jazz guitarist Pat Metheny's road manager for much of the 80's.
Many of us envied the move. I did. And we all knew he was a talent radio would miss.
Then Dave returned to radio back in the early 90's. First at AAA consultant SBR, then as Program Director of KBCO. He moved to Program Director at KFOG in San Francisco.
I've always admired Dave Benson as a refreshingly honest person and as a smart and hard working programmer.
Last week I had a chance to catch up with him for some questions. 

LYONS: Broadcast music radio's post-deregulation business model of 300 songs, seven clocks and a brand phrase appears to have run its course in the last 36 months. Two years ago it was HOT/AC ratings flattening. Last year it was Alternative. And during the last two books we've seen classic-rock hit the wall. Hasn't the creative effort put into the AAA format (actual communication, announcing song titles, effective lifestyle coverage, taking musical risks) paid off in the short and long run now?

HENRY: Yes, I did do the original and subsequent research for the Jack format, but the true credit goes to my client Rogers Media-Radio. In 2002, when we needed a new format for a radio station in Vancouver, they said, “We want a truly new format, so don’t give us the same answers that typically come back from research.”  So, Paragon created and fielded a new type of “format search” research, and the Jack option came out of the research on top. In January of 2003, in its first month of “Playing What We Want,” Jack FM debuted #1 12 plus and has been #1 Men 25-54 and #1 Females 25-54 ever since. History will point back to the genius that was created by the first Jack FM PD Pat Cardinal, Rogers VP/Programming Sandy Sanderson, and Rogers' consultant Pat Bohn. I’m honored to be a part of their team. Rogers put on six Jacks in Canada before NRC Broadcasting launched the first Jack in the U.S. on KJAC-FM Denver. Now there are also eight Jacks in the U.S.

LYONS: It seems to have taken a couple of years for JACK to explode, most recently at Clear Channel's WQBW-FM in Milwaukee and KBPA-FM in Austin where the 12 shares are near the top of the market. What took so long?

HENRY: Radio industry skepticism was very strong for the first couple of years. You name it, and there was a reason why everyone said this format wouldn’t work. But the root of the skepticism is that radio strategy and programming was locked in a fixed pattern based on the premise that radio stations should “create an expectation and fulfill it 24/7." This programming premise was and is viable for narrow formats such as Classic Rock and Country, but the premise smothered unconventional thinking and new types of formats. Jack tapped into the pent up demand that existed among many listeners who wanted to listen to radio that surprises them, that redefines music boundaries, and that appeals to their innate sense of curiousity. Beyond the music, Jack's imaging and completely unique stationality lets the listeners know that this “isn't your father's radio station.” Now that Jack and the listeners have proven the nay-sayers wrong, the industry bandwagon is suddenly very crowded and it seems everyone is an expert! I take comfort in knowing that I am and will always be at least two years ahead of the Jack bandwagon. 

LYONS: Will the moribund nature of current rock or alternative formats continue to lead to more JACK or deep classic-hits format flips?

HENRY: I think you’ll see more and more stations broadening their playlists and in some cases changing formats. In particular, youth and young adult targeted formats are the most fertile ground for broadening playlists. However, some stations are already not doing their local homework and are simply following a national trend.  Broadening playlists too much on narrowly formatted stations might be a big mistake, and the Jack clones that haphazardly throw a “We Play Anything” position on the air without understanding the complete strategy will under-perform. I can already see an over-reaction to the concept, and a high likelihood of ill conceived and ill-fated stations.

LYONS: JACK lists run from 1,200 to 3,000 active songs. Is it just a crap shoot on the number of gut-picked songs a particular programmer wants or are these songs meeting some researched minimum of popularity or recognition?

HENRY: Jack's music is highly researched and very localized. There is a definite method to Jack’s madness. It may surprise some that of the six Canadian Jack stations, only 40% of the music appears on all 6 stations. We've pushed the music library size way above industry norms, but can do so because of the reliance on high familiarity hits from multiple formats. This is the biggest difference between Jack and Triple A stations.  Triple A can't compete on a variety level vs. Jack because when Triple A goes from a familiar hit to an unfamiliar core spice record or new song, Jack goes from a hit to another hit. This is why I call Jack a “Triple AC” format.

LYONS: Does this JACK explosion confirm a "tipping point" into burnout for the typical 400-song Classic Rock format list?

LYONS: Thanks, Mike.

By Mike Lyons

LYONS: WYEP has had a long tradition of excellent music directors. Let's start with your bio. How long have you been there and what's your capsule resume? You had a long run at alternative?

SAUTER: I'm cruising in toward my second anniversary at WYEP, which means I only get lost in Pittsburgh twice a week instead of the previous four times.

Before 'YEP, I was PD at central New Jersey's non-comm AAA, WBJB. I moved there after spending a decade at commercial alternative WHTG in Asbury Park, NJ, which was a fun, quirky mom & pop stand-alone until it changed hands in 2000. I was the morning jock for eight years and spent the last two as PD/MD.

LYONS: I have an opinion that alternative is at a tough position right now. After over 12 years of "life sucks and I wanna die," it may have played that theme out. What does it stand for nowadays?

SAUTER: The long answer would take hours and a lot of ranting on my part, but the short answer is: alternative has become Active Rock Lite. By abandoning its position as a diverse music format——remember that Tracy Chapman and 10,000 Maniacs were once core to alternative, in addition to the Nirvanas and Green Days——and by focusing in so heavily (pun intended) on all the New Jack Metal bands, the format has rather boxed itself in. There are some good stations out there, but as a whole, it's been merely a different flavor of active rock for a while now——one which feels like it's being "edgy" by playing Franz Ferdinand.

Frankly, a good argument can be made that the format started on a serious downward spiral the day a particular West Coast station decided that Metallica was "alternative" and other stations started copying such logic.

The "Tale of Alternative" holds a number of very interesting parables for the AAA format.

LYONS: Such as?

SAUTER: Well, alternative started off as a diversity format with a "big-tent" approach towards artists and styles. There were a handful of very dedicated stations championing the format, which slowly started getting better numbers as listeners became disenchanted with other, more formulaic radio choices. The ratings and/or revenue story started to attract more stations to the format, and as each wave of new players came to the table, the format as a whole became slightly less committed the ideals out of which the format was born.

Lather, rinse, repeat a few times and eventually alternative woke up one day and was its own worst nightmare. It basically became exactly what it was originally intended to be an "alternative" to.

This is the same process that occurred in the early years of FM rock, when the free-form approach metamorphosed into AOR. Perhaps one could argue that this is the natural life-cycle for a radio format. But I definitely see warning signs that this change has begun to occur in AAA.

However, there are two implications that I see for our format. First, I don't think we non-comms are going to travel down that road. I can't speak for all non-comms, but this transformation requires both a reliance on chart positions in the music selection process, and a willingness to put music aesthetic criteria in the back seat for the possibility of cume growth. I don't think that non-comms will, for the most part, display this behavior. The result: commercial AAA and non-comm AAA are two different formats. Personally, I think this is increasingly already the case.

Second, even if the natural life-cycle of formats is this "mainstreaming" process, I would suggest that we are at a crossroads in radio that makes this progression less worthwhile. In an era when bars, dentist's offices, and commuter cars can become their own non-broadcasting radio stations, sanding off the rough edges and mainstreaming a format might now send away as many listeners as it attracts.

The conventional wisdom has always been——and I heard this a lot in alternative circles ten years ago——that when the format moves towards the masses, the core has nowhere else to go and they have to reluctantly follow along with a station's changes. But this is no longer the case. Satellite and especially mp3 players will vacuum up the unsatisfied core like nuts. It might be worth the while for even commercial stations to sacrifice cume growth for a stronger, more passionate group of P1s.

LYONS: What's the latest weekly cume of WYEP?

SAUTER: It's about 90,000, although we don't really chase cume. New listeners are great, but one of the biggest differences between non-comms and our commercial cousins is that casual listening is not as big to us. P1s are obviously much more likely to financially contribute to the station, so increasing TSL is more key than a larger cume.

LYONS: Are you finding that fund-drives are more effective in the last few years?

SAUTER: Well, yeah, I'd say so.

LYONS: Why?

SAUTER: Fund-raising is not really my bailiwick, but it seems to me that two factors are vital to better fundraising: one, the fundraising is shorter and more to the point. And two, the larger radio world is making it so blatantly obvious how valuable we are to our members. Many commercial radio practices are like those airport workers on the tarmac with the flashlights, just waving listeners over to non-comm's like WYEP. High spot loads, small libraries, and a general attitude that the music is somehow a problem instead of the "raison d'etre" are a huge turnoff for a lot of radio listeners.

When people experience these things on the commercial part of the dial, it goes a long way towards converting WYEP listeners into WYEP members——and very passionate members who evangelize their friends, co-workers, and random strangers.

LYONS: What's your take on independent promoters?

SAUTER: First of all, let's differentiate between promotion staff-for-hire independents and "promotional bank"-type indies. Promo staff-for-hire is no different than any promo person, except that by using independent contractors the label gets away with not offering health insurance.

Indies that use "promotional banks" or otherwise funnel money from the labels to a station, on the other hand, are simply bad for the radio industry and bad for music in general. In casual conversations with various industry types, I've tried to find out how these arrangements are legal. I'm no lawyer, but the payola statute (47 USC Sec. 508, for those who want to freshen up on their Broadcast Law 101) reads like it bans ANY quid-pro-quo payment for airplay without a disclosure to listeners. And despite the protestations of stations that there's no quid-pro-quo, that money is attached to a particular song add on the balance sheets of both the labels and the promotional banker.

I've heard arguments from defenders of the practice, claiming (pun intended) that it doesn't affect song selection for their station. Bullshit. Talk to any small label promotions person who deals with such situations and they all have a story about a station that wanted to add a song but their indie wouldn't let them because there wasn't money on the table. And I've seen time and time again how the music selection process slowly gets warped when certain music is connected to promotion dollars and other music is not.

There's a story——alternately attributed to George Bernard Shaw, Mark Twain and Oscar Wilde——about someone at a dinner party who asked the woman next to him if she would bed a man for a huge sum of money. She thought about it and replied she would. He then asked if she would do so for pocket change, and the woman indignantly retorted, "Certainly not! What kind of woman do you take me for?"

"We've already determined what kind of woman you are, madam," he answered. "Now we're merely haggling over price."

Stations which get promo money for adding songs to their playlist and insist that there's nothing wrong with the practice should ask themselves one question: would your listeners agree? Probably not.

LYONS: I tuned in last Friday around one o'clock and heard Eric Mathews "Fanfare" followed by Big Star's "Way Out West" and Nellie McKay's "The Dog Song." I had an organism! Does every staff member have this remarkable taste or do you or Rosemary set up song lists?

SAUTER: We only pre-schedule currents, and that's only to ensure rotation throughout the week and that one DJ doesn't hog their favorites. All library material is chosen by the DJ. We use Music Master with their Real - Time module, so that DJs can select effectively any music in our CD library.

And yes, we play our music from CD. My attitude is that DJs should be relating to the music the same way that most of your listeners are experiencing it. And although the non-physical audio media are gaining rapidly, CDs still appear to be the primary format. With this approach, DJs might comment on cover art, mention liner notes, talk about unusual packaging——something that few Automation Jockeys will do these days.

Pretty much every DJ has their own unique taste in music. Our database divides up our library into five different categories——station "image" music, album depth tracks, crossover familiar tunes, and so on——so that DJs have a framework to work within. So the on-air staff can put their own stamp on the music they select while still feeling confident to play artists they might not be that familiar with. Plus, each hour has a "wildcard" slot or two where DJs can play something that's not even in the database.

So it's very flexible for the DJ——which is great, especially with many volunteer on-air staffers——but the music still fits within a certain structure so that it sounds like WYEP from DJ to DJ.

LYONS: Milwaukee is getting a new non-commercial AAA and it's a blue-collar city like Pittsburgh. Do you try to include that consideration in music decisions?

SAUTER: Absolutely. We keep our music mix tailored to the city. We know there are people who tune in for straight-ahead, guitar-heavy blues just as others look to us for, say, world artists that would never otherwise be heard on the radio. Seeing how people react to artists playing live in Pittsburgh is a very helpful tool for our programming decisions.

LYONS: Obviously every AAA serves their niche primarily but does WYEP try certain artists or sounds to attract new listeners?

SAUTER: I wouldn't say that we play certain music for growth reasons. Our primary concern is playing new music and new styles that will excite our core listeners and make them more passionate about the WYEP experience. It's our members who allow us to be who we are, so those are the people we want to serve best.

When we get in CDs from younger artists like, say, Jem or The Zutons we know that there's an opportunity for growth by playing these artists. The same goes for the huge wave of jam bands. But we have to consider first whether this is the best music available for our members.

That said, our DJs have ample opportunity for working in different sounds as a wildcard selection, so that they can play requests or showcase something different they feel passionate about. But it's the frosting on the cake, not the cake itself. Except, perhaps, during our overnight shifts——which are 100% freeform.

LYONS: What do you like? We LOVE specifics.

SAUTER: I am loving the new Dolorean. I'm surprised they haven't received more attention nationally——this 2nd album is less stark than the first but still with a really entrancing style. WYEP listeners have responded well to it. We've also received terrific reaction to the Charanga Cakewalk album, which is a tremendous hybrid of styles.

The new album from the Irish band The Frames is a little tricky——they can swerve between quiet intensity and exploding guitars at the drop of a hat——but they can be close to a religious experience live. I'm very excited to hear the whole new Tori Amos album. I've been a fan since the beginning of her solo career, and the single sounds huge.

'The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou' soundtrack has a series of Bowie covers by this Brazilian singer named Seu Jorges which are lo-fi but really cool. I'm generally very picky about jam-type bands——anyone gaga over jamming as an end unto itself should go back and relisten to the "Apple Jam" section of George Harrison's 'All Things Must Pass,' or the Bloomfield/Kooper/Stills 'Super Session' album——but Assembly of Dust makes for a great album listening experience.

LYONS: How about trends you see (or hear)?

SAUTER: One of the worsening trends I abhor is the super-compressed, tweaked-up sound of many CDs today. It's nothing new——I remember how bad a 1986 Peter Cetera album sounded for this reason when I had to play it at an AC station I worked at while in college——but it's pretty pronounced now. So many CDs sound like they've already gone through radio station signal processing straight off the disc. That lack of dynamic range is a real warning flag for me. If I have two CDs of similar quality and one has a more organic recording sound, I'll always favor it.

As for radio trends, I don't think any terrestrial broadcaster should worry too much about losing audience share to the satellite broadcasters. These folks have an extremely narrow window to establish and sustain themselves before their lunch gets eaten by wireless broadband. The "walled garden" of content couldn't work for AOL with the internet as competition, and I doubt it will work for satcasters in the long run.

And everyone in the music industry should read a Wired magazine article called "The Long Tail" (just google it). It illustrates how when music retailers overcome the limitations of shelf space online, catalog titles bring in just as much revenue as new music. Radio has similar "shelf-space" issues——only one song can be played on the air at one time——but the power of the "long tail" is something that will increasingly have ripple effects.

As more and more people build their music libraries track-by-track online, radio will become less of a resource to simply enjoy the music and more of a song test-drive service. I see, therefore, my job as not only trying to find new music for WYEP listeners to discover but to continually find "new" old music for them as well.

LYONS: Thanks, Mike.

A ONE-ON-ONE with PD Mike Marrone and MD Kate Bradley
from XM Radio's The Loft

By Mike Lyons

Mike, I remember when you first started at XM and had that wonderful opportunity to play basically whatever you wanted just like the early progressive radio days. Now, I hear gems like "You Still Believe in Me" from the Beach Boys and Nick Drake's "Thoughts of Mary Jane" along with classic tracks such as Little Feat's "Skin it Back" and Joni Mitchells' "People's Parties" then, new artists like Keane and Raul Midon. What's your formula for the Loft?

Formula? Me? Perish the thought. (grin) Actually, there is a formula and I'll just give it to you right now. Ready? Ok, here it goes...I try to recycle the yellow and greens with no more than a 16.9% blue spillover from any given daypart. Once I have that part of the day scheduled, I consult the auditorium testing and divide the scores by the number of co-op dollars my indie is offering for the purple category by 24 (only because it was Willie Mays' number), multiply core artist reach and recall within a fraction of my latest cume information, spread the grey category, call GM & Honda to find out what the car salesman like when they take customers on test drives, throw all the index cards in the air and pick every 7th one. Now I'm ready to really get down to some PowerGold work. I can't tell you the rest because I would have to have you killed, or at least your legs broken.

In all seriousness (can I use that word?), every day is different. There really isn't a "formula" per se but I do have certain things that I do to make sure everything plays and nothing plays too much. The most important thing to me is what plays next, what mixes and makes a good segue, giving a clear "point of entry" and not getting too far ahead of the audience, which is always very tempting. In some respects, each day is like a 24 hour mixtape.

When I was in Milwaukee, I remember Saga would separate "songs" rather than artists. The classic rocker WKLH would own Pink Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" while active-rock WLZR would own "Another Brick in the Wall." Do you and Bill Evans at The XM Cafe and, maybe even XM Deep Tracks, make judgments like that to prevent burn or just channel confusion?

Absolutely! Bill and I talk every day to make sure that we are not stepping on each other's toes, so to speak. There are certain artists we share quite a bit of, and others that we divide up. I think the Café and Loft are very different, but Bill and I do get a good laugh when people get the channels confused. Generally, if you spend an hour with each it will be pretty clear that they are quite different in just about every way. A quick listen will not reveal that though.

How big is your catalog?

Very.

Cool idea to do separate morning shows for each time zone. How topical are you on the Loft?

I don't understand what you mean by "topical"...is that a radio term? (grin)

Back announcing 10 or 11 songs initially wouldn't have sounded attractive to this old terrestrial radio guy but you pull that off so fucking naturally! Was that an important starting block for executing this new satellite radio form?

Absolutely. It's all in how you do it. We call it the "shotgun backsell" and it is mandatory and very tricky to do correctly.

Tell us about your staff, Kate Bradley and Pete Fornatale.

Kate is a powerhouse. I mean how can anyone put up with my fucking insanity day after day? There should be combat pay when you come right down to it. I flat out stole her from the guys at The Penguin and I think Keef is still pissed at me and I really don't blame him. She is the glue that holds The Loft together since my "idiot savant/Rainman" qualities desperately need someone that has a firm grasp of reality and a solid attention to mundane tasks like actually writing things down and making lists. She doesn't understand how I can remember everything about an artist without writing it down and I don't understand why she doesn't. It's a beautiful relationship and I'm sure she wants to choke the living shit ou